Circles Doing New Things (opinions and discussion)

[circles]

And I'm saying that anyone who shuns an album for its cover is pretty silly.

I'm trying to share my music with a broader more general audience who will simply appreciate it and have fun listening to it. My goal isn't to appease and kiss up to the hypercritical 8bc "Gods" of chiptune music. If they're that disgusted by the knowledge I apparently lack judging from my album cover, they're probably also not going to even enjoy any of the songs because I don't have tables with 12636486 effects in them running on my instrument at every single second. I think you're drastically overestimating how serious people will take this.

But if I have to explain the choice of 8-Bit over 4-Bit:

Nintendo Gameboy Tech Specs:
CPU: Custom 8-bit Sharp LR35902[28] (Z80-clone) core at 4.19 MHz
8Bitcollective.com
8BitPeoples.com

I'm well aware that LSDJ is a 4-Bit operating system. But "8-Bit" is the tagline for the culture surrounding the music. It is much more recognizable and understandable to me than "4-Bit." But again I highly doubt this will be a serious issue. I don't think some kid is going to see the title and go, "ZOMG WTF BBQ WHY DOES IT SAY 8-BIT THE INTARNETZ TOLD ME IT WAS 4!!!!111!!!1!" and then proceed to have an aneurysm trying to discover the cryptic meaning behind my Album title.

I could easily make the same argument for your albums. What is "Chrance?" Did you make that up? Your music isn't always very Trance-ey though, so is it really a mix between Chip and Trance? What is chip anyway? Why does Volume 2 sound different from Volume 1? Did you use the same tools to make it? If I didn't already know better I could sit and ask questions all day about it. Or I could just buy it because I want to hear Sypheria, Star Bash, Neon Black, Rescue Time, Cure lvl. 3 and Finisher 3000.

I'll admit that the art is sloppy and I'm actively working to rectify this, but I don't see how my cover idea is tired or played out in any way. I suppose if you called it and my album gets no attention purely for its cover, I'll admit you're right, but until then I'm not going to be scared of the inevitable onslaught of hateful opinion regarding my album cover.

[Fighter X]

I was saying people would shun JUST the cover itself. Like when I buy 8bit Fury (pending title), I'll throw it in my car and every time I take the cd out of the case I'll look at that art of yours and just shake my head in shame but then I'll throw the cd in and most likely love it! I don't think your current art direction on 8bit Fury's cover will actually affect it in sales hahaha. I'm just saying, in my humble opinion, it looks bad. It could be much better. My recommendation for you is to ask the great Hujiko Pro to do art for you Or basically someone who's fantastic at drawing on paper? Maybe no Game Boys? I dunno man. Plus it's pretty lame how badly you are/were wanting to rip off that bands cover art Now you really have to think of something different! Anyway, I hope you're not taking this personal Jack. I'm really just trying to (what I see as) help.

[Webmaster Gabe]

"The Gameboy sound chip offers four channels with 4-bit sound."
"Sound: 2 Square Waves, 1 programmable 32-sample 4-bit PCM Wave, 1 White noise."

Those are Game Boy sound specs, not LSDJ specs.

The term "8-bit" I think is just the generally accepted term, even though it may not be technically correct referring to the audio. The Game Boy does have an 8-bit processor, which is probably why the term is used in the first place (and because "8-bit" sounds cooler than "4-bit"). But yeah, even though the Game Boy does have an 8-bit processor, it appears that the sound technically is 4-bit, where the "programmable 4-bit PCM wave" utilizes 4 bit data, a bit being a single binary digit (1 or 0). With 4 bits, there are only 16 possible binary combinations effecting the sound's dynamic range. The Game Boy's sound waves are quantized at intervals from 0-15 (16 steps total). Picture

Binary is a base 2 numbering system so with 4-bit audio you have a dynamic range of 16 (2^4 = 16). If the Game Boy's audio were 8-bit, the dynamic range would be far greater. (2^8 = 256). There is no way the Game Boy is sampling with that kind of bit depth, otherwise it would have much greater sound capabilities.

Anyways, not trying to shoot anyone down here, just thought that was interesting. Again, "8-bit" just sort of has become the widely accepted term for obvious reasons. Like Jack said, titling his CD "8-bit fury" probably won't be an issue at all. It would actually be really funny and ironic if someone on a site labeled "8-bit collective" made a fuss about the term "8-bit." If Jack wanted to be technically correct and make references to 4-bit audio, it would probably just be really confusing to most people who have been accustomed to the "8-bit" term, however incorrect it may be.

[circles]

Sept 15, 2008 18:42:58 GMT -5 Fighter X said:

Anyway, I hope you're not taking this personal Jack. I'm really just trying to (what I see as) help.

Of course I'm not. I've read enough posts to know your opinions tend to come across somewhat abrasively. I appreciate the honesty though and would rather not have this dissolve into some ridiculous internet grudge like most other threads on the board that start out with good ideas, concepts, and directions tend to. I don't really have the motivation to try and fix other threads, but I'll at least not let it happen to mine.

So I guess with Gabe working on something, I have 3 artists attempting to design a cover for the album. Hopefully it'll all get done soon, since the sooner I have a face to stick to this project, the sooner I'll start releasing information on it.

Somewhat incidental: Does anyone have a microphone I can borrow? Mine broke, and I can't record new demos until I get one. Not for this, like new songs.

For those wondering, the background text on the original art reads as follows:

"And suddenly, in a flash, a new generation rises like a Phoenix from the ashes of the past, and spreads its wings as it surges upward into the night sky. It soars into the atmosphere, and soaks the evening in a brilliant crimson hue. The sunset becomes the sunrise of a new dawn, a new epoch for the world. A time where potential is limitless, and possibilities are endless. A great new adventure for the youth of the world to embark on, and shape society as they see fit. A wild and energetic utopia, unencumbered by rules, lethargy, apathy, and monotony. A society filled with unimaginable power, radical new ideas, and astounding levels of energy. Here, the air is thick with the most graceful of melodies, the richest harmonies, and pounding beats that crash inside your skull like a never-ending thunderstorm. The inhabitants of this exotic new plane of existence move about as if in a trance, under the control of these God-like figures creating sounds so otherworldly, the term, "music" only scratches the very surface of its true identity. The term yields it no justice. It is the sound of a revolution, brought about by the next generation. Future music is NOT always created by future tools."

with exception of the final line (as Nick pointed out), that IS original.

[Aaron Campion]

4-bit fury actually sounds MUCH better than 8-bit fury (two EFF consonants). people outside the chiptune world are already confused enough as it is about thinking its "8-bit"! incorrectly naming game boy music as being 8-bit isnt helping the confusion very much (although leeni has already done it). but really Jack, your target audience IS the vast chiptune community around the world; you dont want a cliche title and artwork because then your limiting yourself to 14-16 year old UK boys. coming up with a completely unique and flashy cover / title is going to greatly help reach a broader and older audience. i know it is sad, but its just how marketing works; how the product looks is probably the most important thing. the smugglers board game is a very made as far as the board game itself, but the packaging is really bad. in fact, i myself was very hesitant to buy it once i saw it!! on the other hand, Pink Godzilla's card game has such amazing packaging, i dont even care how good the game is, it was so god damn cute i had to get it!!!!!!!!!

but anyways, im sure your final album cover will be just fine, especially with help from gabe and others, but Jack you should really not be so tolerant of anything that is cliche. not only would something cliche make you look bad, but it would also kind of make crunchyco look bad

[circles]

My target audience is actually probably American teenagers and people who haven't heard anything like this yet. That's what I suppose I was getting at by saying I doubt anything I could do would be considered cliche or played out. I imagine I am going to sell way more CD's to kids who had an extra 5 dollars at a show they saw me play at then some kid living in the UK on the other side of the Atlantic Ocean.

But again, yes, working on new cover designs. And again, yes, everyone's welcome to throw something at me.

I doubt I'll ever do anything to make CrunchyCo look bad.

[Webmaster Gabe]

Sept 16, 2008 18:20:58 GMT -5 circles said:

I doubt I'll ever do anything to make CrunchyCo look bad.

Yay!

[seth]

hum, speaking of pixel art... gabe, what do you think of the idea of making the team pictures into pixelated faces or sprites? realistic-ish of course, and made to look like the team member (meaning dylan != ninja pic, for example)? seems like it'd fit in with the label more.

[Webmaster Gabe]

Sept 17, 2008 9:28:29 GMT -5 seth said:

hum, speaking of pixel art... gabe, what do you think of the idea of making the team pictures into pixelated faces or sprites? realistic-ish of course, and made to look like the team member (meaning dylan != ninja pic, for example)? seems like it'd fit in with the label more.

hmm that could be interesting. sorta like how all the projects have their own pixel icon too. i'd consider it. i think the pics would actually have to not be 'realistic' to work, so that they don't all look the same and use the same colors. they'd have to be more like special avatars of like cute animals or robots or something representing the person instead of an actual person's pixelated face. what does everyone else think?

[Fighter X]

I like being able to see the actual faces of the CrunchyCo. team. It makes me feel that music closer to you hot and sexy men.

[Aaron Campion]

Jack, WE are trying to help you so your release does better ONLINE. if your target audience is American teenagers who come to your shows, then why would you want to be on a net label? thats what im saying, thus your target audience SHOULD be all the chiptune fans from around the world. to these people, the artwork is going to be much more crucial. and we are also trying to help because any artist who comes out with an official crunchy release with an bad cliche title and cliche artwork is going to make mainly the artist look bad, but even crunchy

[emptythought]

Sept 17, 2008 9:28:29 GMT -5 seth said:

hum, speaking of pixel art... gabe, what do you think of the idea of making the team pictures into pixelated faces or sprites? realistic-ish of course, and made to look like the team member (meaning dylan != ninja pic, for example)? seems like it'd fit in with the label more.

i like this idea.

i'm assuming you were thinking more like the KGHB sprite faces though?

because that could be REALLY funny.

EDIT: it might be hard to make the circles one, assuming they were going to make an actual caricature of him, different from evans. think about it >_O unless evan is still blonde, i don't remember.

[Atomic Sita]

i have so far just observed this thread, and pretty much all i have to say is that i think your chiptune stuff is bomb.com/fuckinfilthy and you should keep going with that. maybe starting to make your chiptune music under a different name would help with some issues like feeling that your ditching your old stuff, and confusion to what is on what album.

i think you need a new album name and different cover art. something completely original will still appeal to the random kids who see you at shows, and at the same time keep the elitist chiptune D-bags off your back.

[circles]

Sept 17, 2008 12:17:08 GMT -5 Aaron Campion said:

Jack, WE are trying to help you so your release does better ONLINE. if your target audience is American teenagers who come to your shows, then why would you want to be on a net label? thats what im saying, thus your target audience SHOULD be all the chiptune fans from around the world. to these people, the artwork is going to be much more crucial. and we are also trying to help because any artist who comes out with an official crunchy release with an bad cliche title and cliche artwork is going to make mainly the artist look bad, but even crunchy

My target audience is American Teenagers, not just the ones at my shows. If they don't have the money to buy my cd there, they can buy it here after the show. I like being on a net label so I can sell stuff online, but let's face it, no one outside of America knows who I am. That's the way it's going to be for a while now, and I'm cool with that.

Again, working on new cover design. Again, no, sorry, the name stays. If nothing else I get to keep the name. Why? Because I name my album's spontaneously and whenever I sit down and actually try to think up a name, I end up forcing out one way crappier than how terrible you might consider this one. This is what I want to call it, it won't affect sales, I promise.

And again, There's no way I could ever possibly do anything to make CrunchyCo look bad.

Sept 17, 2008 15:04:25 GMT -5 Atomic Sita said:

i have so far just observed this thread, and pretty much all i have to say is that i think your chiptune stuff is bomb.com/fuckinfilthy and you should keep going with that. maybe starting to make your chiptune music under a different name would help with some issues like feeling that your ditching your old stuff, and confusion to what is on what album.

Thanks man. I hope it can only keep getting better. What I am going to do with my future albums now is that each song that isn't pure chiptune will still have heavy elements of chiptune incorporated into it, so this way it won't seem so awkward from album to album, and more importantly to me, the transitions in live sets. I guess the fundamental difference between the two types of music is that some will have electro dance drums and guitar, and other will just have chip drums and stuff like that. This way I also won't have to ditch Circles. I wouldn't know what else to call myself anyway. Nothing screams pop like Circles.

And again, I appreciate the help. I hope I'm not coming across as angry or vicious. I'm just trying to defend myself a little.

[Aaron Campion]

listen Jack, im not saying that you WILL make crunchy look bad, but obviously anything is possible. is it probable? no, because we are here to help you out, redo your artwork, give you suggestions, etc. thats what we're doing. i want to see Jack start getting vicious on some other threads!!