Everyone's Hypocrite

[Webmaster Gabe]

Crunchyco is not and has never been just your site to throw on whatever you like

Well, actually that's exactly how it started. Clearly, we've made some changes over the years, but CrunchyCo is still a tool for us to share the things that WE like in hopes of attracting an audience that shares similar interests with US. We're not just trying to please the majority of people, because if we were doing that then all the artists on CrunchyCo should sound like Britney Spears or Hannah Montana.

It is absolutely the truth that Everyone's Hypo has no effect on CrunchyCo whatsoever and that no sane person on this planet would turn away from our website or put it down because of them. It's really a non-issue completely.

I personally would like to give my friends a little space on the web which is definitely not a problem at all to anyone, not you, not me, and not our viewers. To say that 'not everything should be on the internet' is just ridiculous, as if the internet is some elite thing, no it's quite the opposite. CrunchyCo promotes a free flow of ideas which people can choose to enjoy or ignore.

In the bizarre situation that one of our viewers browsing our site actually bitches about CrunchyCo because of a specific band, well they can just fuck themselves, because they obviously don't get it.

People don't have to like everything on our site, and I don't expect them to. If I go to a grocery store to buy candy, and there's one candy that I think is really disgusting, it's very easy to ignore it and move on to the stuff I do like, and it would be very snobby and strange of me to complain to the owner for having a candy that I don't like as if I know what's better for his store than he does.

Yes I want CrunchyCo to be successful, but hopefully that can happen without us having to turn into some snobby elitist crowd-pleasing bullshit that only does things to get money and be popular. I need to enjoy what I do, and if it gets to the point where other people control what I do with my own website, then it's not fun for me anymore. It's just really too bad that this is a world where you have to go against your personal beliefs to be successful. If CrunchyCo got extremely popular due to a bunch of bands like Sabrepulse that I don't feel personally connected with, then we might as well try to get popular selling office supplies, or something else that I'm equally unconnected with.

Aaron's definitely right about one thing: the sad fact of life that if you want to be successful, you have to be a crowd pleaser.

But anyways, Aaron, you're not allowed to reply to this, I'd like to hear brandon and nick moffitt's thoughts on this crap.

[seth]

CHILDREN PLEASE
let's all get along.

you can always put out music through us too, at gayfordragons. we're more rock oriented, i suppose.

[Aaron Campion]

haha i guess im not allowed to reply to this so i guess i'll keep this short! on one hand you can have a website that is well respected and known for having only the up most quality, or you can have a website that comes across, is known for, and has a reputation for slapping crap on it.

its kind of funny you have such positive assumptions about something you know and admit is bad. no sane person would turn away? why would you assume the best? its like saying that i run a convenient store and have a friend who loves peeing in sinks, so i have a little corner where every once in awhile he pees in the sink. i know this is bad, so should i assume that no one would turn away from the store? i guess if they dont understand fuck em right? people with any sense of musical theory probably should be offended when they hear everyones hypo, smugg, or baboon or there is something seriously wrong with them!

and im not saying that nothing deserves to be on the internet, anyone can have there stupid whatever on their own website. im saying, lets say if i pull my anus apart and take a picture and dont intend anyone to see it, should i put it on the front page of crunchyco? no artist should be on crunchyco unless its for the purpose of wanting their music listened to.

By the way, i am the one who actually doesnt care if we never make a living off of this. im not doing this to become successful and i never really intend to. all i want is to have a somewhat respectable site, youre the one who would be willing to do stuff such as sell out and have adds for staples or anyone else as long as they paid us. (http://www.crunchyco.com/advertise.html) i think it would be very lame to put stuff on the site that we dont actually like just to make money, and sabrepulse i very indeed like, and having a strong personal deep intimate connection with him would be nice, but i dont really expect something like that from a 23 year old Scotsman who is constantly working to make ends meat on the other side of the world. heck i probably talk to him more than i talk to james, nick, beb, baboon, and most of our friends on here! i mean, does james know what crunchyco is? we should play a game and delete everyones hypo and see how long it takes him to notice! or how about we delete baboon and see if anyone notices?

but i do like you analogy about the candy! yes, if there was a candy put in a store that the owner knew was bad, the manufacturer knew was bad and wasnt even trying when they made it, i think i would be pretty annoyed, and you candy selection would be much better without it! as a store owner, i think as long as you try your best as an independent store to buy the foods of the highest quality, and put a lot of thought into every little thing in the store, i think the store will be well received and well respected. its also like pink dragon putting their personal friend's football xbox game in their store even though they know it sucks, will not be well received, and will never sell.

one last thing i would like to get across is that from these posts i probably look like everyone hypocrites biggest hater, but the truth is that i am the only person alive that owns their first live album (bought it online and am the only person who has ever bought one of their cds online), their tshirt, and their full legnth cd! i am not ashamed to say that they are bad, in fact some of their worst songs are my favorites! but i am also fair about this whole thing; i can admit smugg is bad. i had a lot of fun with smugg, we werent making music to become popular and we werent trying hard to make the most complex music ever made, we were just having a good time. i am not embarrassed smugg sucks, i am proud to say it was very enjoyable and happy to see them go into the archive section and not be a part of what i would consider some of my personal favorite music ever made

[Aaron Campion]

oops i guess that wasnt that short!

[beb]

oh boy -

[Webmaster Gabe]

okay well i'm just basically done writing essays on this thread. i could probably write a novel about my feelings on the whole thing, but i'm too exhausted to even talk about it anymore. i just don't see a problem. and aaron's right, that if you took some of those bands off, no one would notice. that's why it's not a problem, because no one notices them on there anyways. i think aaron is the only one who is seriously concerned with this issue. i just really don't know what to think, and i don't really care enough to fight it anymore.

and for the record, I AM NOT WILLING TO SELL OUT AARON, and that's sick that you would say that. That advertise page is NOT for any random shit that has nothing to do with our site. If someone wants to advertise on our site for something relevant, it is reasonable to accept payment for it, and that is NOT selling out. Selling out is telling your friends that your website is too good for them now and that they can't be on it unless they bring traffic or make you money.

[Aaron Campion]

again, i dont care about people just bringing traffic and money. i dont care about money at all. anything that is relevant to our site that we like we dont need money to convince us to either write an article or talk about them on our forum, we automatically do that. (http://crunchyco.com/articles/games_PGparadise.html) the advertising is specifically for something that we wouldnt normally want on the site, and is something that we are just having on the site for money, which is selling out. dont freak out about selling out so much gabe, you do realize every single god damn successful website does it, selling advertisements is the main way websites, and newspapers, and free websites in general become successful, and youre going to have to start selling out someday if you ever want to have this as a living, or start charging everyone a fee to view crunchyco and become a member. you are willing to sell out, and its understandable.

about the hypos, im not asking for us to kick them off necessarily, i wish you would stop blindly defending them and speaking for them, you and i hardly even know what they want! there are many unanswered questions throughout this thread, mainly why is everyones hypocrite on crunchyco? just because gabe wants them to be and assumes the crunchyco audience is too ignorant to notice them? youd be surprised how many people were curious enough to check out the other artists, the hypos are the #37 most looked at thing on the site (wiklund is already #23) Also, what is their purpose? is phase two the hypocrites actually trying hard now to make good music and become popular? Do they want to be on crunchyco to be heard by people around the world? Do they care about what people think about them or are they just continuing to do what they want? Do they think they are good now? Have they improved? Do they want to be on crunchyco to see a pretty profile and be happy to see themselves on the internet? Do they want to be on crunchyco to show their mothers how cool their profile is? does james know what crunchyco is? above somewhere, dr moffit said they never tried to get fans, and i disagree. They've had a myspace page up for the public view for almost 3 years now, which is the #1 Fighter X has gotten fans, and is the #1 way people find crunchyco. So if that wasnt enough, i dont know what is

i hope this post makes it clear that we should be thoroughly thinking about everything thats presented on crunchyco, i would like to be proud to promote and have anyone listen to anything on this site, and it can be possible if we ensure quality and a purpose for every little thing. and i think in the end, it will be greatly noticed and appreciated by our continuously growing fanbase from around the world

its funny how you think i am the only on concerned with the issue. i am arguably everyones hypocrites biggest fan and i am bringing this up, i cant even image what everyone else from around the world thinks of them (and smugg, and baboon)!!

[Webmaster Gabe]

I actually do have something else to say though:

Since CrunchyCo started, it has always been about the little guy, especially because we were the little guy too. Now that we've gained a little more popularity, things are changing. As much as I would love to grow and spread our influence througout the world more and more, my biggest issue is that I would hate to abandon those artists that we've always supported in the past just because we're trying to gain more notoriety. I hate to put myself, my bands, and my company on a level above others, as if we're so much better than them. I hate to support only the artists that are popular, because they're obviously not the ones who need the support.

Young and growing artists are always submitting their music to me asking for my opinion and advice. I am flattered that they think highly enough of me to request my opinions, and I'm happy to give them my thoughts, but I in no way wish to put myself above them. The bands that submit their music to me aren't always that great, and actually most of them are really quite bad, and while I may not think their music is particularly good, I LOVE their dedication and passion for what they do, and I encourage them and support with all my heart to keep working on it and keep doing the thing that they love because I was just like them years ago. If someone sucks, they need support to get better, and it's because of the support I got from my friends in bands such as Everyone's Hypocrite that kept me going and helped me get to where I am by being there for me. It doesn't matter to me how serious an artist is, how far they want to go with their art, or how many people like their art. What matters is that they are passionate about what they do and even if they never in their life have a single fan or sell a single thing, if they make art for the pure joy of it, then they are just as important and significant in our community as anyone else. Or at least that's what I would hope. I wanted to create a community where people can freely exchange ideas and advice and not worry about some art snob bashing their music because it's different, or because it's not as good of quality. I guess that dream is just too unrealistic to accomplish because in this world, people can't just accept things for what they are. I don't know what is going to happen from here regarding this issue. All I know is that if CrunchyCo stops supporting the little guy, then it's a sad day in CrunchyCo's history, and even if the company becomes extremely successful as a result, it will no longer be what I've always envisioned it to be from the beginning.

[Webmaster Gabe]

"you are willing to sell out, and its understandable."

Dude, fuck that Aaron. You're are just flat out wrong, and that's bullshit. Maybe you and I have different ideas of what selling out is. Selling out would be putting something I don't want on my site just to make money. Like if Disney wanted to pay me thousands of dollars to put an ad for Hanah Montana. I would say fuck you Disney because I'm not a sell out. On the other hand, if something really cool that I like and that is related to CrunchyCo and would fit very well on our site as an ad, like say if some awesome videogame company wanted to put up an ad for their new game, taking money for posting that ad would not be "selling out" because I'm perfectly content to have that ad on my site. It's only selling out if you have to question your own beliefs. If it's an ad for something I love and support, and they happen to want to pay me for my service, it's definitely not selling out. You're wrong on that one Aaron. End of story.

[Webmaster Gabe]

That was the second time I mentioned Hannah Montana. haha what the fuck. I think it's because we sell pens at my work that sing her retarded songs.

[drmoffitt]

God I have so much to say;;

okay okay i understand that EH barley fits in with the other bands on the label, I don't really know what to tell you about that.

because we're all talking about metaphors---i'm thinking of a sports team and it sounds like you want to kick off the kid who mostly sits on the bench but has a great attitude and spirit.

I guess in order to solve this problem we are going to have to look at a breif history of EH. We started as 4 guys who had absolutly no idea what we were doing. We wanted to start a punk band inspired by a relgious weekend, and that was fine. I may have said that we sucked, on occasion, but that is only because of what our band was founded and based on. We have always done our best and created a style that we enjoyed. I repeat, we always did our best, and even in Phase One I think it was evident that we were getting better. I NEVER said that we were a parady band, and I have never considered us that. We may have a parady song or two but that was never what I considered the whole band.

We played a lot in high school and I would like to believe we had a pretty good run. When the Hole was going on we played all the time, we played at el corozone, and we were chosen to play at the senior fun night. Those were the highlights of Phase 1. After high school, I left and we totally lost momentum. Our CD wasn't released for a whole year and no one had any idea who we were anymore. If things has been different, like if we had our CD done while we were in high school maybe we could have sold some more or got more fans but that didn't happen. What happened was, we didn't promote our CD at all, in fact we didn't promote anthing at all. We never tried to get into a scene or find our crowd. All we did was what was easy; setting up a goofy myspace and letting people come to us, which quickly became nothing.

After we decided to continue with the band, it appeared we wern't doing anything, but a lot of bands do that after they release their first album. We're just at the beginging stages of reamerging with Phase 2. To answer a lot of your questions---I am first going to say that I am fucking pissed that you keep calling us a bad band. We may have started that way but we've been doing this for three years! Do you really think that I am still going to live by that sentiment?? I dont know about you but I'm not aware of the absoulte world that we live in and good and bad is a relative thing. I am extreamly proud of the songs that we've written recently and I stand by that we have always done our best.

Phase 2 is going to be competly different. I can't believe you can't see that Aaron, you were at our show at Andrew's house and heard our new songs. We're probably never going to have a silly goody show again. I will NEVER play King Kong again. We played Wicken at my house a few weeks ago and it was so bad we probabaly won't play it for months if ever. This coming Grassfest will probabaly be our last time playing Tears. I was going to play Tribute to Chaos, for you, despite how that song makes me sick. After the show, you told me that you were bummed we didn't play those songs (excluding tears).

How can you consider yourself one of our biggest fans if you keep making annoucements that we suck and want us to dwell in our old songs? Phase 2 is all about change and how we are somthing totally new. So, are you going to get us now?

I have a lot of ideas for Phase 2. You will see something totally different, within the coming months. The first step is to revamp the terrible myspace page that we check once a month. Then the next steps will be taken, but I assure you that I am going to take a strong standpoint with the band and have Phase 2 mean something. I really don't think its cool the way you expressedthese excessive negative feelings. It seems like they came out of nowhere; we were having anice conversation about our demos and then allofasudden there was a gigantic post excdessivly putting down Everyone's Hypocrite by you. It seems like you were just trying to start shit and I'm really not cool with that.
We're on CrunchyCo because we've been supporters since the begining in three different areas, and Gabe knows that despite that we havn't done much in the last year and half that we'll be back and with verocity.
I guess it comes down to we've changed a lot, Phase 2 will be completly different, and we're going to try to accomplish something. There.

I'm kind of sick of reading these threads and if theres anything else to say I would like to talk to you in person. I'm not going to check this again.

[Evan Joseph-Pinero]

I don't mean to butt in at all, but it seems to me any sort of arguing on this is pointless.
Gabe is not going to get rid of them, and while it may not be "his" site, he clearly does have a deal of authority over it. And while others may not like parts of that, it doesn't seem to be changing any time soon.

As for my own opinions, I think no musical project should be denied an audience. As one or another person comes across it, they may like or dislike it, but in the long run, if they like the other music on this site they probably came for anyway, or the comics, or any of it, it's just as easy to pretend that "miscellaneous" genres link isn't even there.
As for bringing down overall quality, look at something like Domino records. They have so many different bands and artists, so many of whom are entirely different. Many of which seem "bad" to fans of others on there. Diversity is good. =]

[Webmaster Gabe]

Jul 7, 2008 23:01:49 GMT -5 Evan Joseph-Pinero said:

I don't mean to butt in at all, but it seems to me any sort of arguing on this is pointless.
Gabe is not going to get rid of them, and while it may not be "his" site, he clearly does have a deal of authority over it. And while others may not like parts of that, it doesn't seem to be changing any time soon.

As for my own opinions, I think no musical project should be denied an audience. As one or another person comes across it, they may like or dislike it, but in the long run, if they like the other music on this site they probably came for anyway, or the comics, or any of it, it's just as easy to pretend that "miscellaneous" genres link isn't even there.
As for bringing down overall quality, look at something like Domino records. They have so many different bands and artists, so many of whom are entirely different. Many of which seem "bad" to fans of others on there. Diversity is good. =]

Don't feel like you're butting in, as a third party point of view I value your opinions wholeheartedly. I encourage you to always give your input on things we discuss here because the forum is for everyone not just the staff.

Anyways, I think you make a really good point which is what I've been saying all along: people will come for what they like and ignore what they dislike. It does not bring us down. It seems like some individuals just don't agree with what I wrote our company is about in the About section:

#3
Everyone has the potential to create art.
Art is not a practice for the elite; it is an open canvas in which anyone with the right motivation can appreciate and make additions to.

#4
The validity of an art peice is relative to the observer.
Art has no absolute rights or wrongs. Too many people think they can define what makes a work of art "good", but their rules are not truly universal, only applied within context.

That is what I think CrunchyCo is about, that's why I wrote it. I'd hate to change that to: "We only accept only the best, because we know what's best, and if you suck at art you shouldn't try." We're not elitists, and people who come here with an elitist attitude, whether they are users, staff, or artists, then they don't get the point of our site, and I don't want them to participate if they think they are so high and mighty.

I want to have a meeting discussing these issues with my entire staff in person instead of bitching back and forth on this forum. I'm going to contact everyone and set up a time and date this week very soon to get this thing resolved. This thread is now locked.